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The perverse system of the groups
Almost in every photographic community which I have attended before landing here there was a main or general gallery where one could see all the photos posted daily. That gave the maximum visibility to each photo posted because it could be seen by everybody.

That also means that one can browse all genres of pictures and chose the ones which he/she finds appealing or interesting and eventually write a comment, or leave a “like” or a “fav”. Depending on how far back one goes the browsing usually it takes few minutes.

It is generally considered a good habit and a form of etiquette to comment other people photos each time one posts one’s own.

Even in Flickr it was like that at the beginning. Then one day they decided to change the whole thing and the main gallery disappeared… When the change was made I was absent from the site so I discovered it only much later. I asked for an explanation in the forum – there is no possibility to contact the staff there – and I have been told by senior members that the reason was that the amount of posted photos was too big to have the all of them in one single gallery. They said few millions each day. That digit is not proved, and actually someone checked the source of information and found out it was much smaller. Anyway, millions or thousands that is Flickr… Ipernity surely doesn’t have 1/10 of that traffic. Actually judging from the “explore gallery and many other group galleries, the pace is very slow. So why we can’t have one single gallery with all the photos?

If there is not a main gallery where all the posted photos go automatically that means that nobody will see your photo. I discovered that on Flickr because I wondered why nobody was commenting my photos… (:-) So if you want that your photos can be seen by other people and perhaps commented or voted you are compelled to join a group and post it again there (that is two operations instead of one). But this reduces drastically the visibility of your photo because one group may have let’s say from 50 to 400 members (and usually not all the members are active) versus the thousands which are registered in the site. Furthermore, due to the low activity and the rules to post the photo in the group, it’s much more difficult to find photos which you like. That is: you have less choice. (I hope everything I said is clear enough).

Then the solution is to join several groups... The more groups you post your photos in, the more visibility you get. Also in this way you have more chances to find the photos you like. But alas! This means that the fatigue and the time needed multiplies for the number of joined groups! Are you beginning to see the problem?

At the beginning I joined only about a dozen groups (accepting the invitations I received) and it took me a whole evening to browse them all. Then I continued joining new groups (how many are there no one knows!) along the way and now I found out it’s impossible for me to browse them all. I’m forced to be a sit-backer (for the definition of a sit-backer please see my previous article) and to comment only the photos of my – for the moment – few contacts. Isn’t this system perverse?

Now, is anyone here who is able to explain the usefulness of the groups? Which advantage do the give us? And why they banned the main gallery?

10 comments

beverley said:

(when I get a moment I shall return and reply as I find your topic most interesting )
9 years ago

beverley said:

Ok ... ipernity has many advantages over flickr in that the layout and ease to get around
is far better, of that I think we all agree. The groups on flickr were, in general, not to my
liking for many reasons. I will not got into all of that, only to say it seemed that to be the biggest and have the most members was the object and desire of most admins. Quality, sadly I felt did not enter into the criteria, it was just get as many members as you can to "appear" to be the biggest, best and most popular. The post one and comment five or whatever, I will not even go down that road.

How to meet new like minded people both on flickr and here was it seemed a rather pot luck situation. You were either "discovered" by someone who liked your pictures quite by chance or they had seen you in explore ... in a group ... or were a friend / contact of someone and they took a closer look and either liked and made you a contact or you never saw them again.

Ipernity ... well ... I joined over three years ago ... but did not upgrade to club until about eighteen months ago. I discovered groups being set up ... those had already existed
and many seemed to be "dead" ... merely dumping grounds or storage depots never looked at ... no interaction, no activity at all ... I think people posted if they were invited, realised they got little feedback ... and just never bothered to look at the group pool. Which leads me next to explore.

It soon became obvious that the criteria for explore was ... how many comments and faves one could get in the quickest possible time ... and hang on in there going round collecting more comments from anyone who would reciprocate. The only good thing about explore here was you could at least see some different pictures that you might want to take a closer a look at ... and take it from there.

So ... I decided that I would open my little and I say little ;-) 4U groups covering different subjects ... and bring them all together under one umbrella ... the main 4U group. So there would be a gathering together of all members from all the subjects coming together to meet and to make new contacts ... if they wanted to. Keeping the standard and quality of a high level ... and hopefully inviting those who like yourself would look ... enjoy, comment and make new friends. I deliberately did this in a slow and careful way ... but you can never be sure that everyone will play fair and at least look at the group pool and interact. I have left them open ... I monitor them ... I invite those whom I think will participate and enjoy ... but it is not the most important thing to me on ipernity ... contacts and interacting with those whom I like their pictures is the main reason for me being here ... How to meet these people ...? its a hit and miss thing sadly ... the groups I hoped would service a purpose ... it has to a degree .. and I know that many of the members have made new friends through the groups. Thats good ... that was my intention ... but it takes time ... and as there is not a common place to be able to view all pictures posted each day ...then what is the alternative ....?

We all have only a certain amount of time that we can spend on iperntiy ... by the time we have posted our own photo ... looked at contacts pictures ... and explore .... there is not a lot of time left ... too many groups ... too many options ... it all takes up too much time ... what are we to do ...? I have hoped to bring together like minded people who will enjoy a diverse range of subjects and hope that they will find the groups that suit them ... we can only hope that over time it works ... and is enjoyed ... if not ... so be it. But at least in my own way .... I have tried ;-)

I do not know what the answer is ... ipernity is still relatively small ... when the explore seems to have gone a little haywire ... and we see peoples pictures with one fave and one comment .. I actually enjoy looking at them ... and seeing pictures that I would have never seen ... where would I find them ...? hit and miss sadly.

PS: a thought .... I remember someone saying in the forum (here in ipernity) that they liked to know where their pictures had been viewed, if it had been in a group or just by chance, and so when the arguments started about new groups here coming over from flickr and the big awards etc. then this started a whole rumbling of complaints and concerns, I can understand the interest maybe of wanting to know where a picture has been seen ... a small link (which was approved for use) served the purpose ... but its everyones choice ... what do you do ... post to groups that are not alive, it seems a waste of time to me or post and hope to find new interesting people to share photography and ideas with, its a fine balance ... takes time ... the answer ... I am not sure ... ;-)
9 years ago

Skipper replied to beverley:

Bev, thanks for your reply. I'm quite tired now and want to go to bed soon. I'll read again and with more attention your reply tomorrow.
9 years ago

Skipper replied to beverley:

OK Bev, today I can tackle your long post. (:-)

“it seemed that to be the biggest and have the most members was the object and desire of most admins.”

It seems to me that this happens here too. But what is the use? This fragmentation brings only more waste of time for the members. It might be so that the admins get a lot of comments from the people who post in “their” group, so more people join the group, more comments one receives? Actually I’ve seen an admins who receives hundreds of over enthusiasts comments for his very mediocre photos…

“It soon became obvious that the criteria for explore was ... how many comments and faves one could get in the quickest possible time ... and hang on in there going round collecting more comments from anyone who would reciprocate. The only good thing about explore here was you could at least see some different pictures that you might want to take a closer a look at ... and take it from there.”

OK that happens in every site. Let them do that, I don’t care. But you should not call that gallery “explore” the name is deceiving, in all the other site that is called: “Popular” or “Editor’s choice”, a selection of the most supposedly beautiful ones or the most voted. It can be a useful shortcut to find what you like, but the problem is that it’s the activity going on in the groups which will decide which photo will go to that selected gallery and which not. So unless you are hectic in participating in group life your photo will have no chance. I’m in favour of a more relaxed approach. One single gallery, sorry to repeat, will make things much more simple.

“So ... I decided that I would open my little and I say little ;-)”

Your group seems to me similar to the ones we had in Trekearth: a group where you collect your friends photos or the ones you liked. It has a personal value, and it could be nice for the other people too.

“ 4U groups covering different subjects ... “

I wasn’t aware of the existence of all those 4U groups… I had a look at your groups now and found them. Not sure if I understood their goals and reason of existence. Tribalism maybe, the strong imprinting humans have to belong to a tribe. And from the practical point of view is a fragmentation which makes it hard for a newcomer to find meaningful photographic relationships…

“ ... and as there is not a common place to be able to view all pictures posted each day ...then what is the alternative ....?

One single gallery as a starting point. Then one may join whatever group one likes.

“We all have only a certain amount of time that we can spend on iperntiy ... by the time we have posted our own photo ... looked at contacts pictures ... and explore .... there is not a lot of time left ... too many groups ... too many options ... it all takes up too much time ... what are we to do ...?”

That is exactly my point: it takes too much time. What we need is more simplicity.

“ .... I remember someone saying in the forum (here in ipernity)...”

Is here a forum? Where? I could not see any in the menu.

Thanks for stating your views.
9 years ago

beverley replied to :

not a problem at all ... hope you enjoyed your weekend ... and I just wanted to
reply with some thoughts.
9 years ago

beverley said:

I think we sing more or less from the same hymn book ;-) and because there is no single place
that ipernity has for viewing .... then I have tried in my own little way to try to provide somewhere
where images may be seen ... and in a range of subjects, and actually far from "collecting"
more comments or a link to the group ... I have not found this to be the case actually ... because
of the 4U group criteria ... that an award (or link) is always optional and that personal comments are welcomed by everyone ... that is slowly ... slowly happening more and more ... I do not
see it as tribal ... but respect your point of view .... but at least over a period of time ... people
do get to know about others ... through the group ... becoming contacts if they want to ...
and it has and does cut down a little bit of time ... no quick answer ... there never is one ...
only patience that stands the test of time as to whether it works or not ... so far ... I am happy
that being small ... growing slowly ... and being in no rush ... is the way forward ... you could
say ... I have chosen carefully (I hope) my contacts ... those that interact and will appreciate
others also ... so far ... so good .... ;-)

Forum ... having typed it quickly ... it is the equivalent to the flickr forum and is the
The ipernity Team blog ... there you will find ;-) all the uproar of twelve months ago
of the groups ... awards ... and all the unpleasantness that followed ;-)

PS: I think many groups here as on flickr ... post for extra awards ... with the chance
of a fave ... a comment also if they are lucky ... and this mentality has come here also ...
a thin line between this ... and what I have hoped to achieve myself with my groups
for like minded people ... that is ...to view and enjoy and comment on others that they
might not have seen ... and of a good quality ... !

thanks for your reply also ... ;-)
9 years ago

Skipper replied to beverley:

“I have tried in my own little way to try to provide somewhere where images may be seen .. and in a range of subjects, and actually far from "collecting".

I’ve used “collecting” to mean that you gathered there all the photos you liked, I don’t see anything wrong in that. Of course you are giving to the other the possibility to discover other deserving images.

“ more comments or a link to the group ... I have not found this to be the case actually ... because of the 4U group criteria .. . I do not see it as tribal ..”

I guess there is something I’m not aware of here. I actually don’t know what these 4U criteria are, and also I wonder if they all belong to you?

In saying that they satisfy a human need to belong to a tribe (which is something we all share because it’s our heritage – have you ever read any of Desmond Morris books?) I was stating a general concept. We do belong to tribes, even if we like to call them with different names, and in this way it’s easier for us to have stable relationships. But if we stick to our tribe and ignore the vast universe we may be in contact with then we are narrowing our life and experience, are we not?

“what I have hoped to achieve myself with my groups for like minded people ... that is ...to view and enjoy and comment on others that they might not have seen ... and of a good quality ... !”

Yes, this is a good purpose.

Have a nice day,
D.
9 years ago

Tomas K☼h☼ut said:

I find this discussion interesting...

Groups: You may like it or not. If not - simply ignore them. There are many other ways how to find your comfort zone and even more photos "you can eat". But if you want to participate in some groups and follow whats new there, maybe you find this section of your "news" useful:
www.ipernity.com/group/0/activity

And when talking about "all new photos in one page"... I have not tried it yet, just stumble across RSS feeds provided by ipernity:
www.ipernity.com/help/feed
It shall give you various "feeds" which can be opened in RSS reader (application, online service in browser or browser extension).
9 years ago

Skipper said:

"Groups: You may like it or not. If not - simply ignore them"

That is: take it or leave it. OK, I know that. We don't want to change, do we? If the groups are there, of course there must be a valid reasons for them which I ignore. I wrote this article just to see if there was someone aware of those reasons and willing to explain them to me.

Thank you for the links. They can be useful in case I want to navigate into that vast ocean... I'm a prudent sailor and I usually start sailing in safe and friendly waters (:-).
9 years ago

Valfal said:

Very interesting conversation! I have had many of the same questions about Explore and its purpose. You are right, it is more of a type of gallery for popular photos that gained a lot of comments/faves within the first 24 hours. Hoever, since going to the 18 page format, I notice that a lot of the photos on the last 10 pages of Explore seem to go by a different criteria for gaining exposure. Perhaps these photos are chosen to encourage more visits to an obscure photographer's page. I don't know. But I treat Explore as a true "explore" page only because there isn't any other way to meet new contacts.

There is so much more I want to say on the subject, but I have time constraints at the moment. I will be back to further comment :)
9 years ago